![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Why Friends Make The Best Lovers
July 2nd, 2012 01:51 amEver since I was a teenager, I've noticed that I tend to choose partners from among my group of friends. When I first realized this, I was a little weirded out and thought it bizarre... but I had also noticed that my partner selection was greatly improved.
1. My friends are people with whom I have many things in common, from interests and hobbies to ethics and values. They are fun and interesting people.
2. I really get to know what kind of person they are (how they handle conflict, their goals, etc) without an expectation for our friendship to be anything more. It's a very low-pressure way to get to know someone and allows for any relationship to develop organically.
3. While I can be physically attracted to someone without knowing them (I've enjoyed many one-night-stands), I do not become emotionally invested in someone unless I've spent a significant amount of time around them.
4. All of my romantic relationships must begin with friendship. I don't know how to build a relationship on any other foundation.
Not all of my friendships become romantic relationships (matter-of-fact, most of them do not), nor do I choose friends based on any romantic relationship potential. But I have noticed that I am more likely to be interested in a friend than a stranger. Given how emotional attachment works for me and my process for starting a romantic relationship, it has been the easiest and most effective method.
How do you meet potential partners?
1. My friends are people with whom I have many things in common, from interests and hobbies to ethics and values. They are fun and interesting people.
2. I really get to know what kind of person they are (how they handle conflict, their goals, etc) without an expectation for our friendship to be anything more. It's a very low-pressure way to get to know someone and allows for any relationship to develop organically.
3. While I can be physically attracted to someone without knowing them (I've enjoyed many one-night-stands), I do not become emotionally invested in someone unless I've spent a significant amount of time around them.
4. All of my romantic relationships must begin with friendship. I don't know how to build a relationship on any other foundation.
Not all of my friendships become romantic relationships (matter-of-fact, most of them do not), nor do I choose friends based on any romantic relationship potential. But I have noticed that I am more likely to be interested in a friend than a stranger. Given how emotional attachment works for me and my process for starting a romantic relationship, it has been the easiest and most effective method.
How do you meet potential partners?
One of the main points of conflict that I have seen in mono/poly relationships is each partner trying to understand how the other experiences love. For example, a monogamous person explaining to their polyamorous partner that romantic love is exclusive and that "sharing" it with more than one person cheapens it. While the polyamorous person explains to their monogamous partner that love is multiplied when shared, not divided and that each connection is unique and special and, therefore, not "shared." This is a very dangerous difference in world views between partners and can possibly end a relationship.
My mono/poly relationship with Kare (roughly pronounced Kah-reh. It is Japanese for boyfriend. I thought it a fitting nickname for him in my journal since he is half Japanese) has never encountered this particular conflict. From the beginning, Kare has accepted that this is how I love. I'm not sure that he fully understands the way that I love, but he has never questioned it. He doesn't appear to need or care to understand poly to know that I love - him and anyone else - with all that I have. Perhaps it's because I had the advantage of explaining poly to him and showing poly to him from the very beginning of our relationship. (I had a serious partner when I met Kare, so it gave me the chance to demonstrate to him that I can maintain healthy, loving, concurrent romantic relationships.)
Based on how supportive, encouraging, and understanding he's been of my other relationships, I have always been bewildered by Kare's monogamous identity (or monogamish identity, to be more accurate). Personally, I think he is in a transitional period and is currently unsure of how to identify so he uses that label because it is the one with which he is most familiar and comfortable. (I have shared this theory with him.) For example, he has a very doting friendship with Ryder, a mutual friend of ours. He has let me and her know that he has the biggest crush on her and they are absolutely adorable and cuddly in each others' company. If she were open to a romantic relationship with him, I'm sure he'd be open to dating her in addition to me. But he doesn't recognize his openness to such an arrangement as being poly-minded. He seems to believe that poly is a state of circumstances (how many partners you currently have) rather than a state of mind (views on love and relationships). (With me for a girlfriend, I have no idea why he holds such a belief.)
On the other hand, he can have very mononormative views. For example, we both love to laugh, even at our own expenses so we often playfully rib each other. After a particularly good time (in which I had bested him), I started to tease him about how awesome I am. The banter went something like this:
Me: "You hit the jackpot when you met me and you will never have another girlfriend as cool or as funny."
Him: "Well, to test your theory, I'm going to break up with you and check out my options."
Me: "The joke is on you. You don't have to break up with me if you want to date other people. You're just stuck with cool and funny me. Sucker."
Him: "Oh yeah. You're poly like that. You're the worst girlfriend ever for ruining my joke."
Regardless of how he identifies or expresses his love, I am appreciative that he supports my identity and expression so surely and unwaveringly. However, there definitely appears to be some sort of cognitive dissonance between his conscious and unconscious thinking. Reconciling the two can be a long and arduous journey. I look forward to joining him on his path of discovery and supporting him in his choices as fully as he has supported me in mine.
My mono/poly relationship with Kare (roughly pronounced Kah-reh. It is Japanese for boyfriend. I thought it a fitting nickname for him in my journal since he is half Japanese) has never encountered this particular conflict. From the beginning, Kare has accepted that this is how I love. I'm not sure that he fully understands the way that I love, but he has never questioned it. He doesn't appear to need or care to understand poly to know that I love - him and anyone else - with all that I have. Perhaps it's because I had the advantage of explaining poly to him and showing poly to him from the very beginning of our relationship. (I had a serious partner when I met Kare, so it gave me the chance to demonstrate to him that I can maintain healthy, loving, concurrent romantic relationships.)
Based on how supportive, encouraging, and understanding he's been of my other relationships, I have always been bewildered by Kare's monogamous identity (or monogamish identity, to be more accurate). Personally, I think he is in a transitional period and is currently unsure of how to identify so he uses that label because it is the one with which he is most familiar and comfortable. (I have shared this theory with him.) For example, he has a very doting friendship with Ryder, a mutual friend of ours. He has let me and her know that he has the biggest crush on her and they are absolutely adorable and cuddly in each others' company. If she were open to a romantic relationship with him, I'm sure he'd be open to dating her in addition to me. But he doesn't recognize his openness to such an arrangement as being poly-minded. He seems to believe that poly is a state of circumstances (how many partners you currently have) rather than a state of mind (views on love and relationships). (With me for a girlfriend, I have no idea why he holds such a belief.)
On the other hand, he can have very mononormative views. For example, we both love to laugh, even at our own expenses so we often playfully rib each other. After a particularly good time (in which I had bested him), I started to tease him about how awesome I am. The banter went something like this:
Me: "You hit the jackpot when you met me and you will never have another girlfriend as cool or as funny."
Him: "Well, to test your theory, I'm going to break up with you and check out my options."
Me: "The joke is on you. You don't have to break up with me if you want to date other people. You're just stuck with cool and funny me. Sucker."
Him: "Oh yeah. You're poly like that. You're the worst girlfriend ever for ruining my joke."
Regardless of how he identifies or expresses his love, I am appreciative that he supports my identity and expression so surely and unwaveringly. However, there definitely appears to be some sort of cognitive dissonance between his conscious and unconscious thinking. Reconciling the two can be a long and arduous journey. I look forward to joining him on his path of discovery and supporting him in his choices as fully as he has supported me in mine.
Risk and Reward
May 16th, 2012 03:57 pmMy world has included a whirlwind of emotional events over the last several months.
I am very good friends with one of the kink community leaders in my area. I finally told her about my experience with Husband that included non-consensual sexual contact on multiple occasions. In turn, she told me that several other women have complained about Husband to various leaders with instances ranging from the minor (such as aggressive disregard of personal space that made them uncomfortable) to the major (such as unsafe play practices and non-consensual sexual contact). She also informed me that none of the women were willing to come forward to validate the claims since he was considered a leader in our local community.
So I decided to speak out.
The community leaders launched an investigation. By the end, 8 separate and independent statements were made where women were either permanently scarred from unsafe play or sexually violated, all of which included a disregard for boundaries and/or consent.
Later, there was a leadership meeting held where the most active and prominent groups were represented and - by unanimous vote - asked Husband to step down as group leader for the better of the community due to the controversial claims. He did not step down and, as such, his group is no longer endorsed by the community.
A new group has been formed and sanctioned and I have accepted a position on the leadership board.
I am extremely lucky to have received such support and encouragement from leadership and the (majority of) members of my local community. I am forever grateful that my statements and those of other women were taken seriously given the prevalence of rape culture (which I did experience, albeit minimally) that is disturbingly prevalent in the kink community (of all places!).
The icing on the cake was when Wife called me and said she had finally left him and was leaving town. She thanked me and apologized for not hearing me earlier (which I told her was unnecessary) and promised that she'd be in touch once she felt ready. I told her that I was extremely happy for her and wished her nothing but happiness with someone more deserving of a beautiful and compassionate person like herself.
On top of that on-going-but-mostly-concluded saga, I have been asked to help coordinate a national kink event, my first ever! I am excited and flattered to be trusted with such a responsibility as well as a bit overwhelmed and nervous. I have also decided to volunteer to be a Dungeon Monitor for a new and growing local community-ran dungeon (which includes being on-site security and policing the safety of scenes during play, another first for me). Not to mention, I have been accepted by a major kink site to aid in customer service issues.
Yeah, I don't know how I'm going to juggle all of this either lol.
I am very good friends with one of the kink community leaders in my area. I finally told her about my experience with Husband that included non-consensual sexual contact on multiple occasions. In turn, she told me that several other women have complained about Husband to various leaders with instances ranging from the minor (such as aggressive disregard of personal space that made them uncomfortable) to the major (such as unsafe play practices and non-consensual sexual contact). She also informed me that none of the women were willing to come forward to validate the claims since he was considered a leader in our local community.
So I decided to speak out.
The community leaders launched an investigation. By the end, 8 separate and independent statements were made where women were either permanently scarred from unsafe play or sexually violated, all of which included a disregard for boundaries and/or consent.
Later, there was a leadership meeting held where the most active and prominent groups were represented and - by unanimous vote - asked Husband to step down as group leader for the better of the community due to the controversial claims. He did not step down and, as such, his group is no longer endorsed by the community.
A new group has been formed and sanctioned and I have accepted a position on the leadership board.
I am extremely lucky to have received such support and encouragement from leadership and the (majority of) members of my local community. I am forever grateful that my statements and those of other women were taken seriously given the prevalence of rape culture (which I did experience, albeit minimally) that is disturbingly prevalent in the kink community (of all places!).
The icing on the cake was when Wife called me and said she had finally left him and was leaving town. She thanked me and apologized for not hearing me earlier (which I told her was unnecessary) and promised that she'd be in touch once she felt ready. I told her that I was extremely happy for her and wished her nothing but happiness with someone more deserving of a beautiful and compassionate person like herself.
On top of that on-going-but-mostly-concluded saga, I have been asked to help coordinate a national kink event, my first ever! I am excited and flattered to be trusted with such a responsibility as well as a bit overwhelmed and nervous. I have also decided to volunteer to be a Dungeon Monitor for a new and growing local community-ran dungeon (which includes being on-site security and policing the safety of scenes during play, another first for me). Not to mention, I have been accepted by a major kink site to aid in customer service issues.
Yeah, I don't know how I'm going to juggle all of this either lol.
If You Build It, They Will Come
January 18th, 2012 11:20 amOne of the most common questions asked by newcomers to the poly world is some variation of, "How do I find other polys?" The most common answer to this question is, "Attend local poly social events. Can't find a local social event? Create one!"
That's what I decided to do. In my corner of the world, the poly scene exists but it is overlooked and underdeveloped. For the last six months, I have been working to change that. I have created a poly group with the goal of making the community more visible and to help what is already here to grow. For the last two months, I have worked with fellow polys to help organize a meet and greet that has been very successful (the most attended poly event in the area, actually) with requests for more. If all goes well, it will become a monthly event.
I am also trying to organize a monthly poly discussion group. I'm hoping to create an interactive and diverse dialogue where polys can come and ask questions as well as share advice and other experiences. Hopefully, it will be very helpful to have real life examples of the many different ways others define and structure their poly and deal with personal or relationship issues. The community could be it's own resource. There seems to be a wide appeal and serious interest in this idea from my fellow polys. A few sex-positive venues have already offered their space for our events, too!
It's crazy. I've never so much as planned a party at my house before, now I'm creating and organizing community events.
How surreal.
That's what I decided to do. In my corner of the world, the poly scene exists but it is overlooked and underdeveloped. For the last six months, I have been working to change that. I have created a poly group with the goal of making the community more visible and to help what is already here to grow. For the last two months, I have worked with fellow polys to help organize a meet and greet that has been very successful (the most attended poly event in the area, actually) with requests for more. If all goes well, it will become a monthly event.
I am also trying to organize a monthly poly discussion group. I'm hoping to create an interactive and diverse dialogue where polys can come and ask questions as well as share advice and other experiences. Hopefully, it will be very helpful to have real life examples of the many different ways others define and structure their poly and deal with personal or relationship issues. The community could be it's own resource. There seems to be a wide appeal and serious interest in this idea from my fellow polys. A few sex-positive venues have already offered their space for our events, too!
It's crazy. I've never so much as planned a party at my house before, now I'm creating and organizing community events.
How surreal.
My discussion with Kare (regarding how some of my needs are currently not being met in the relationship) went very well!
Kare had no idea the affect this situation was having on me (as I suspected) and he was noticeably distressed to learn that I was feeling frustrated, resentful and distant. It turns out we have very different standards for what qualifies as time together. He considers us being in the same space - even if we're not interacting - as spending time together to an extent, which is obviously very different from how I define it because that setting doesn't even exist on my Together Time radar (hereforto known as Quality Time to emphasize the distinction). Now that he understands this difference in our needs, he has already begun to adjust some of his behaviors to accommodate me.
He wasn't very agreeable to the solution that I suggested since my idea significantly reduces the amount of time we spend in the same space, so we came up with a compromise that will (hopefully) work for both of us going forward:
Kare had no idea the affect this situation was having on me (as I suspected) and he was noticeably distressed to learn that I was feeling frustrated, resentful and distant. It turns out we have very different standards for what qualifies as time together. He considers us being in the same space - even if we're not interacting - as spending time together to an extent, which is obviously very different from how I define it because that setting doesn't even exist on my Together Time radar (hereforto known as Quality Time to emphasize the distinction). Now that he understands this difference in our needs, he has already begun to adjust some of his behaviors to accommodate me.
He wasn't very agreeable to the solution that I suggested since my idea significantly reduces the amount of time we spend in the same space, so we came up with a compromise that will (hopefully) work for both of us going forward:
- I don't mind if he spends time on the computer at my place as long as he takes a break every few hours (4 is the limit) to spend some quality time with me. Also, I'm not interested in policing his computer time (I'm not his mother) so if I feel like he's consistently not holding to this agreement, I will revert to the solution that I originally suggested and we'll have to discuss our relationship from there.
- We will have a weekly date night and a monthly (at the very least) social night. (He liked this idea.)
All The Way Turned Up
January 3rd, 2012 03:43 pmFor the last several months, Kare has been obsessed with an online game (that I foolishly introduced him to lol) - and that's putting it mildly. He spends 95% of his free time playing this game instead of taking care of other responsibilities such as preparing documents for work or spending time with me. Generally, I do not interrupt him while he's playing the game even though it is something he can do for 12 hours straight on his days off. To avoid feeling neglected by him, I've asked that he take 30 - 60mins to spend uninterrupted quality time with me at some point during the day.
While Kare has provided me with my quality time (as long as I request the time, because he never volunteers it), I have told him that I still feel ignored. However, the importance of this matter and the affect it is having on me does not seem to be registering with Kare because he hasn't changed any habits associated with playing this game.
The definition of insanity is doing the SAME thing and expecting a DIFFERENT result so I think it's time for a different approach. For the last few days, I have taken the time to identify which of my specific needs are not being met and what I can do to meet them. Since Kare has demonstrated that he is unwilling to change his behavior to help me meet these needs, it's up to me to change my behaviors and communicate a more structured boundary regarding "us" time that I need for a continued healthy and fulfilling relationship with him. This will include not tolerating computer use at my house or during "us" time, not accepting an offer for his company after 7pm on weekdays (because he'll be ready for bed at that time, not to hang out), a date night, and a social night.
These conditions may mean a significant reduction in the amount of time we currently spend together (he usually sleeps over every night) but it's the best compromise I can offer based on the circumstances. I've also determined that I don't mind minimum to no interaction when we are not together nor do I mind how much time we spend "not-together" as long as we have a weekly date night and a monthly social night.
To facilitate a more neutral and compassionate environment of giving and receiving, here is my issue framed using non-violent communication that I plan on presenting to Kare (so some of the language may reflect that):
When we go out (either alone or with friends), I've noticed that you are affectionate, attentive and actively engage in conversation with myself and others. When we are at home, I've noticed that the affection, attention and conversation are minimum to non-existent unless I specifically request your time [per the agreement I stated previously]. All activities: waking up, going to sleep, and everything in-between are done with little contact between us.
I feel distant when we spend all day in the same house and take only 30 - 60 mins to interact with each other. I feel frustrated that I am usually the one that initiates our interaction on these days. I am beginning to feel very resentful that the majority of your focus goes to non-work related computer time. Since a large portion of our time together is spent at home, I am experiencing these negative emotions for a significant portion of any given day.
My need for companionship, intimacy and bonding with my partner are not being met when we spend so much time in the same space and so little time engaged in each others company.
What I would like to happen is:
I'm hoping that by turning up the communication (not the volume), he'll be better able to hear me.
While Kare has provided me with my quality time (as long as I request the time, because he never volunteers it), I have told him that I still feel ignored. However, the importance of this matter and the affect it is having on me does not seem to be registering with Kare because he hasn't changed any habits associated with playing this game.
The definition of insanity is doing the SAME thing and expecting a DIFFERENT result so I think it's time for a different approach. For the last few days, I have taken the time to identify which of my specific needs are not being met and what I can do to meet them. Since Kare has demonstrated that he is unwilling to change his behavior to help me meet these needs, it's up to me to change my behaviors and communicate a more structured boundary regarding "us" time that I need for a continued healthy and fulfilling relationship with him. This will include not tolerating computer use at my house or during "us" time, not accepting an offer for his company after 7pm on weekdays (because he'll be ready for bed at that time, not to hang out), a date night, and a social night.
These conditions may mean a significant reduction in the amount of time we currently spend together (he usually sleeps over every night) but it's the best compromise I can offer based on the circumstances. I've also determined that I don't mind minimum to no interaction when we are not together nor do I mind how much time we spend "not-together" as long as we have a weekly date night and a monthly social night.
To facilitate a more neutral and compassionate environment of giving and receiving, here is my issue framed using non-violent communication that I plan on presenting to Kare (so some of the language may reflect that):
When we go out (either alone or with friends), I've noticed that you are affectionate, attentive and actively engage in conversation with myself and others. When we are at home, I've noticed that the affection, attention and conversation are minimum to non-existent unless I specifically request your time [per the agreement I stated previously]. All activities: waking up, going to sleep, and everything in-between are done with little contact between us.
I feel distant when we spend all day in the same house and take only 30 - 60 mins to interact with each other. I feel frustrated that I am usually the one that initiates our interaction on these days. I am beginning to feel very resentful that the majority of your focus goes to non-work related computer time. Since a large portion of our time together is spent at home, I am experiencing these negative emotions for a significant portion of any given day.
My need for companionship, intimacy and bonding with my partner are not being met when we spend so much time in the same space and so little time engaged in each others company.
What I would like to happen is:
- Spend time actively engaged with each other and/or sharing in activities when we are together.
- When we spend time at my place, I'd like for computers to be off-limits.
- I'd like at least one date per week that lasts a minimum of three hours, with at least one hour of that time dedicated for just you and me. If it's on a weekday, I'd prefer if "us" time begins no later than 7pm.
- I'd like at least one social night per month where we are together and spend time with our friends.
- If you need/want to use your computer for work or play, I would like for that to be handled during "not-us" time and at your own home.
I'm hoping that by turning up the communication (not the volume), he'll be better able to hear me.
99 Problems
December 6th, 2011 09:17 amThe best thing about surrounding yourself with people who are super neat is that they often have friends who are super neat as well.
Kare's friend from college, Leib, and his girlfriend, Badu, came to visit over Thanksgiving weekend from California. We shared so many personality traits among the four of us that it was like looking into a mirror. They have an open relationship (though, I'm not entirely clear on the terms) and they propositioned me and Kare. While I am very interested in pursuing a FWB situation with them, neither Kare nor I accepted their offer... for now.
A couple of months ago, when I decided to start dating again, I sparked up a conversation on a dating site with Sam. While my relationship with her has been entirely platonic (though, very productive! We have been organizing a sorely needed poly meetup for our area), I think she's pretty awesome. She's witty, intellectual and nerdy (my trifecta!). She's a very opinionated, activist type and I find her absolutely fascinating. Her parents were true hippies and she describes her childhood as a cross of co-op living and utilitarian survival training. She can literally fashion a bow (for an arrow) out of a seat belt and start a fire with a car battery, come the Zombie Apocalypse. Yeah, she's super neat.
Then there's Spud. He's new to the local kink community and he and I clicked right away. He's kind of quiet and shy and socially awkward - an artistic type - and I dig all of these things about him. Ever since he found out that I am poly, he's been paying little compliments and chatting me up. It's too soon to tell if he's flirting or not but I am absolutely tickled by his attention.
I expected to wait months - maybe even years! - to meet others I'd be interested in dating and vice versa. I'm a bit stunned at my Luck.
She must be a Lady.
Kare's friend from college, Leib, and his girlfriend, Badu, came to visit over Thanksgiving weekend from California. We shared so many personality traits among the four of us that it was like looking into a mirror. They have an open relationship (though, I'm not entirely clear on the terms) and they propositioned me and Kare. While I am very interested in pursuing a FWB situation with them, neither Kare nor I accepted their offer... for now.
A couple of months ago, when I decided to start dating again, I sparked up a conversation on a dating site with Sam. While my relationship with her has been entirely platonic (though, very productive! We have been organizing a sorely needed poly meetup for our area), I think she's pretty awesome. She's witty, intellectual and nerdy (my trifecta!). She's a very opinionated, activist type and I find her absolutely fascinating. Her parents were true hippies and she describes her childhood as a cross of co-op living and utilitarian survival training. She can literally fashion a bow (for an arrow) out of a seat belt and start a fire with a car battery, come the Zombie Apocalypse. Yeah, she's super neat.
Then there's Spud. He's new to the local kink community and he and I clicked right away. He's kind of quiet and shy and socially awkward - an artistic type - and I dig all of these things about him. Ever since he found out that I am poly, he's been paying little compliments and chatting me up. It's too soon to tell if he's flirting or not but I am absolutely tickled by his attention.
I expected to wait months - maybe even years! - to meet others I'd be interested in dating and vice versa. I'm a bit stunned at my Luck.
She must be a Lady.
There's an interesting discussion in Poly & Kinky over on FetLife entitled Deal breakers? asking other polys what they would consider unacceptable in prospective and current partners, which has prompted me to share my thoughts on some of the deal breakers listed in the thread (in no particular order):
"I am looking for someone who completes me." I want to date a whole person, not a half of one - nor do I want to date someone looking for zir soul mate or THE one. I have come to find that I am incompatible for those who consider themselves incomplete without a partner.
Cheaters. Sometimes the cheater likes to dress it up with how zir current partner doesn't understand zir 'poly nature' - but cheating is cheating is cheating. Rather than trying to see if they can work towards opening the relationship together, zie decides that their partner's feelings are irrelevant. Yeah good luck with that, bitch, but I'm not the one.
"I have a high sex drive too, so I can understand why you want multiple partners" or "Open relationship? Oh sure, I'm cool with keeping things casual" or "Were poly, there's no such thing as cheating." Poly and commitment are not mutually exclusive. Anyone with this view of poly has a fundamentally different outlook on it than I do and shows that we would be incompatible in a relationship.
"We only date as a couple." I am thinking of making this an entry unto itself because I could rant a novel on the subject, but I'll keep it simple here. Since I believe a relationship is between TWO people no matter how many are romantically involved, I will not date a couple. I will date two people that happen to already be a couple, but I do not date those that structure their poly as 2+1. Not only is it a disservice to the third by not allowing the third to form zir own individual relationships, those that structure their poly this way tend to have unreasonable requirements for said third (in the poly community, they're known as Unicorn Hunters). For example, the couple often demand that this polyamorous third not date any one else or they expect the third to have ONE equal emotional response to the TWO of them. If one partner in the couple feels this agreement has been breached, the offended partner can end zir relationship with the third AND zir partner's relationship with the third (also known as 'veto power'). I don't see any benefit as the third in this type of relationship.
"You can date other women, but not other men." I would never agree to an OPP (One Penis/Pussy Policy) and am also thinking about making this a post on it's own. I have heard about this working in the poly relationships of others, but I have yet to hear a reason for implementing this rule that wasn't: a) selfish b) based on sexist ideology c) that wasn't about avoiding an insecurity rather than confronting it.
Anything that involves keeping secrets from anyone's partners. As expressed in my entry School of the Hard Knocks, this was an ugly one for me to learn and I still have all of the knocks to prove it. I didn't think I would have to ask a partner not to put me in a position that would compromise my relationship with the other partner. Now, I set this boundary upfront to avoid similar unpleasant surprises.
Needs to have relationship maintenance talks nearly every day. I'm all about communication in a relationship but unless we're dealing with a crisis or some other major event, maintenance every. single. day. is overkill. Husband associated conflict with progress and would often create conflict to facilitate (what he perceived to be) progress. I let him know early on that I couldn't spend two hours rehashing fairly inconsequential shit EVERY DAY because I found it to be tedious and draining.
A history of unstable, volatile relationships or seeking other relationships when your relationship is unhealthy. You can get an idea of what kind of partner someone will be and how you will be treated by looking at how zie handle zir past/current relationships and partners.
Trying to talk me out of current relationships. A person that tries to breakup an existing relationship in the attempt to have the attached partner all to themselves is termed a cowboy/cowgirl. Anyone that tries to 'take me' from a partner has a different idea of poly than I do and shows that we are not compatible.
Someone being attached to a belief about how I feel despite being told otherwise. Husband also had a habit of doing this - though never towards me, only towards Wife. (I never understood why he took me at my word but not her, considering she was always more upfront about her feelings than me.) He acted based on what he believed she felt rather than what she expressed about how she felt. It was very strange and frustrating (and is partly how he justified many of his lies and manipulations of her).
Poly personal ads that read like job postings. I've never understood in the poly (or kink) community why people who are looking for someone to love include that this person must also be willing to help clean up around the house, pitch in with the kids they have from a previous relationship, and is expected to be available for kinky sex involving additional partners. When I was monogamous, I never saw an ad open with these things so I don't understand why people believe "I want a house cleaner, a nanny, and a sex slave" is an attractive offer to a poly partner.
"I am looking for someone who completes me." I want to date a whole person, not a half of one - nor do I want to date someone looking for zir soul mate or THE one. I have come to find that I am incompatible for those who consider themselves incomplete without a partner.
Cheaters. Sometimes the cheater likes to dress it up with how zir current partner doesn't understand zir 'poly nature' - but cheating is cheating is cheating. Rather than trying to see if they can work towards opening the relationship together, zie decides that their partner's feelings are irrelevant. Yeah good luck with that, bitch, but I'm not the one.
"I have a high sex drive too, so I can understand why you want multiple partners" or "Open relationship? Oh sure, I'm cool with keeping things casual" or "Were poly, there's no such thing as cheating." Poly and commitment are not mutually exclusive. Anyone with this view of poly has a fundamentally different outlook on it than I do and shows that we would be incompatible in a relationship.
"We only date as a couple." I am thinking of making this an entry unto itself because I could rant a novel on the subject, but I'll keep it simple here. Since I believe a relationship is between TWO people no matter how many are romantically involved, I will not date a couple. I will date two people that happen to already be a couple, but I do not date those that structure their poly as 2+1. Not only is it a disservice to the third by not allowing the third to form zir own individual relationships, those that structure their poly this way tend to have unreasonable requirements for said third (in the poly community, they're known as Unicorn Hunters). For example, the couple often demand that this polyamorous third not date any one else or they expect the third to have ONE equal emotional response to the TWO of them. If one partner in the couple feels this agreement has been breached, the offended partner can end zir relationship with the third AND zir partner's relationship with the third (also known as 'veto power'). I don't see any benefit as the third in this type of relationship.
"You can date other women, but not other men." I would never agree to an OPP (One Penis/Pussy Policy) and am also thinking about making this a post on it's own. I have heard about this working in the poly relationships of others, but I have yet to hear a reason for implementing this rule that wasn't: a) selfish b) based on sexist ideology c) that wasn't about avoiding an insecurity rather than confronting it.
Anything that involves keeping secrets from anyone's partners. As expressed in my entry School of the Hard Knocks, this was an ugly one for me to learn and I still have all of the knocks to prove it. I didn't think I would have to ask a partner not to put me in a position that would compromise my relationship with the other partner. Now, I set this boundary upfront to avoid similar unpleasant surprises.
Needs to have relationship maintenance talks nearly every day. I'm all about communication in a relationship but unless we're dealing with a crisis or some other major event, maintenance every. single. day. is overkill. Husband associated conflict with progress and would often create conflict to facilitate (what he perceived to be) progress. I let him know early on that I couldn't spend two hours rehashing fairly inconsequential shit EVERY DAY because I found it to be tedious and draining.
A history of unstable, volatile relationships or seeking other relationships when your relationship is unhealthy. You can get an idea of what kind of partner someone will be and how you will be treated by looking at how zie handle zir past/current relationships and partners.
Trying to talk me out of current relationships. A person that tries to breakup an existing relationship in the attempt to have the attached partner all to themselves is termed a cowboy/cowgirl. Anyone that tries to 'take me' from a partner has a different idea of poly than I do and shows that we are not compatible.
Someone being attached to a belief about how I feel despite being told otherwise. Husband also had a habit of doing this - though never towards me, only towards Wife. (I never understood why he took me at my word but not her, considering she was always more upfront about her feelings than me.) He acted based on what he believed she felt rather than what she expressed about how she felt. It was very strange and frustrating (and is partly how he justified many of his lies and manipulations of her).
Poly personal ads that read like job postings. I've never understood in the poly (or kink) community why people who are looking for someone to love include that this person must also be willing to help clean up around the house, pitch in with the kids they have from a previous relationship, and is expected to be available for kinky sex involving additional partners. When I was monogamous, I never saw an ad open with these things so I don't understand why people believe "I want a house cleaner, a nanny, and a sex slave" is an attractive offer to a poly partner.
To help me identify what I need to get out of a relationship and what I'm willing to invest into a relationship, I have found the Polyamory Compatibility Questionnaire to be a useful tool in helping articulate my ideals. However, I am careful not to let my ideals dictate my decisions since ideals are generally unrealistic in that they are one-sided and exacting. So instead of trying to force my relationship to fit my ideal, I determine where my ideals fit into the relationship (through negotiation), including where I'm willing to compromise and where I am not. (And I highly recommend everyone check out the questionnaire! It can be a great tool for monogamous relationships, if you disregard the questions directly related to poly.)
I have two goals for detailing my style of poly here:
1. For my convenience. Since the PCQ is quite long and involved, having my answers summarized is handy. (Though, the summary is fairly long and involved as well. You've been warned. lol)
2. I realize that my relationship choices are unconventional and not necessarily common knowledge. Hopefully, this will give my f-list a better understanding of what I mean when I say I'm polyamorous.
What follows is more thoroughly explained in my PCQ answers. For brevity's sake, I can't include all of it here and so some of the context may not be clear. If there are any questions, I'm happy to answer them.
These are my preferences and not how every poly relationship works and blah blah blah.
( Way more information than you ever wanted to know if you don't plan on dating me... )
I have two goals for detailing my style of poly here:
1. For my convenience. Since the PCQ is quite long and involved, having my answers summarized is handy. (Though, the summary is fairly long and involved as well. You've been warned. lol)
2. I realize that my relationship choices are unconventional and not necessarily common knowledge. Hopefully, this will give my f-list a better understanding of what I mean when I say I'm polyamorous.
What follows is more thoroughly explained in my PCQ answers. For brevity's sake, I can't include all of it here and so some of the context may not be clear. If there are any questions, I'm happy to answer them.
These are my preferences and not how every poly relationship works and blah blah blah.
( Way more information than you ever wanted to know if you don't plan on dating me... )
It's been a while since I last posted and that is for two reasons:
1) I always get depressed during Fall/Winter because it is when I lost my father to a violent crime. I was nine years old and a witness to it (as were my three younger siblings). While I rarely think about it and have addressed it in therapy, it still manages to affect me every. single. year.
2) Wife contacted me and, although it went better than could be expected and has provided some closure, it has still been difficult on me emotionally and has no doubt been exacerbated by the time of year. To be brief, she told me that she felt betrayed by the two people she loved most and that she doesn't want any contact from me. She said that she hoped her feelings would change in the future, but that this is where she is right now. She hugged me, kissed me, and told me that she loved me. I expressed my remorse (again) and gave her my support. Then we parted ways... possibly forever, but I certainly hope not.
I have been fairly withdrawn for the last month and a half and have been forcing myself to (minimally) interact with the world around me so that I don't enter the death-spiral that is depression. I often liken my experience with depression as being stranded in the water. I can either swim to shore, tread water, or drown. I feel like I have been treading water and now it's time to start swimming.
I hope to see land soon.
1) I always get depressed during Fall/Winter because it is when I lost my father to a violent crime. I was nine years old and a witness to it (as were my three younger siblings). While I rarely think about it and have addressed it in therapy, it still manages to affect me every. single. year.
2) Wife contacted me and, although it went better than could be expected and has provided some closure, it has still been difficult on me emotionally and has no doubt been exacerbated by the time of year. To be brief, she told me that she felt betrayed by the two people she loved most and that she doesn't want any contact from me. She said that she hoped her feelings would change in the future, but that this is where she is right now. She hugged me, kissed me, and told me that she loved me. I expressed my remorse (again) and gave her my support. Then we parted ways... possibly forever, but I certainly hope not.
I have been fairly withdrawn for the last month and a half and have been forcing myself to (minimally) interact with the world around me so that I don't enter the death-spiral that is depression. I often liken my experience with depression as being stranded in the water. I can either swim to shore, tread water, or drown. I feel like I have been treading water and now it's time to start swimming.
I hope to see land soon.
Kare was always supportive of my relationship with Wife. Once, I remember Wife unexpectedly showed up at an event. He made it a point to give us space and let us spend that entire time together, without me even asking. During the evening, I went to check on him to make sure he wasn't feeling neglected. After assuring me that he was fine and having a good time with our friends, he damn near pushed me back over to Wife, reminding me that she and I rarely get time together and insisting that I take advantage of such an opportunity. Best. Boyfriend. Ever.
Kare identifies as monogamous. I am his first polyamorous partner. He and I started dating during the last six months of my year and a half relationship with Wife. By that time, she and I were only seeing each other about once a month due to schedule conflicts and my issues with Husband (Forgive Me, Girlfriend, For I Have Sinned). During that time, since Kare and I live very close to each other, we had the luxury of spending every day together and sleeping over every night. Our relationship was less affected than usual by my other relationship, which means we both had it easy.
Recently, I mentioned to Kare that I would eventually like to start dating again and what his feelings are regarding that. I explained that since the tail-end of my last relationship looked much different than the beginning (which he didn't experience), I needed to know what he was comfortable with during this process. While he believes he will be ok with it, he pointed out that he's never been in this position before and is uncertain of how he will actually react. Fair enough.
In the meantime, we were able to figure out a few things:
I had many more questions for him (ie: veto power on potential new partners; or sleepovers with other partners) but since he is unsure of his needs/concerns regarding them, we agreed to address them as they arise. (This makes me slightly uncomfortable. I am much more proactive in my approach to these things and like to address them before they become problems, if possible. However, he prefers to deal with problems as they arise, particularly if he is inexperienced with the situation at hand. We often frustrate each other in this regard. I find that a healthy compromise is periodic status updates and honest communication. That way I'm not caught off-guard when something does become a problem and he doesn't have to guess at his reactions to hypotheticals.)
Time to roll those dice.
Kare identifies as monogamous. I am his first polyamorous partner. He and I started dating during the last six months of my year and a half relationship with Wife. By that time, she and I were only seeing each other about once a month due to schedule conflicts and my issues with Husband (Forgive Me, Girlfriend, For I Have Sinned). During that time, since Kare and I live very close to each other, we had the luxury of spending every day together and sleeping over every night. Our relationship was less affected than usual by my other relationship, which means we both had it easy.
Recently, I mentioned to Kare that I would eventually like to start dating again and what his feelings are regarding that. I explained that since the tail-end of my last relationship looked much different than the beginning (which he didn't experience), I needed to know what he was comfortable with during this process. While he believes he will be ok with it, he pointed out that he's never been in this position before and is uncertain of how he will actually react. Fair enough.
In the meantime, we were able to figure out a few things:
- I informed him of how I structure my poly relationships and how I function within them (which I will share, in detail, in future entries), giving each of us the opportunity to share our preferences and voice our concerns.
- He is unsure of whether he would want to pursue other relationships in the future. I am ok whether he does or not.
- We agree to make each other aware of potential new partners before anything more sexual than kissing occurs or before we become significantly emotionally involved beyond friendship, whichever comes first.
- We had another discussion on safer sex practices and what we expected from each other. Since we are fluid-bonded (and tested regularly), it is very important to both of us that these boundaries are clear to us and all future sexual partners.
- I reminded him that it is each of our responsibility to let the other know where we are emotionally - both in our relationship and the relationships we have with others - and that it's important that we update each other regularly. (We're both really good at doing these things, but it never hurts to restate it during a period of transition.)
- We agree that nothing is set in stone and that we can discuss (and possibly change) our agreements if needed.
I had many more questions for him (ie: veto power on potential new partners; or sleepovers with other partners) but since he is unsure of his needs/concerns regarding them, we agreed to address them as they arise. (This makes me slightly uncomfortable. I am much more proactive in my approach to these things and like to address them before they become problems, if possible. However, he prefers to deal with problems as they arise, particularly if he is inexperienced with the situation at hand. We often frustrate each other in this regard. I find that a healthy compromise is periodic status updates and honest communication. That way I'm not caught off-guard when something does become a problem and he doesn't have to guess at his reactions to hypotheticals.)
Time to roll those dice.
School of the Hard Knocks
October 12th, 2011 12:22 pm“Polyamory is a grad school relationship. It’s for grownups only. If you can’t yet bring yourself to communicate honestly with your partner about everything that goes wrong….and don’t wait too long after it goes wrong, and don’t lay on guilt when you bring it up, then don’t do it. Stay monogamous. Polyamory is not the place to work out your neuroses, any more than running a marathon is the best way to exercise your recently-broken and healing ankle.” - Raven Kaldera, The Polyamory Contract
Non-monogamous relationships are arguably one of the most difficult relationship structures to maintain and many lessons are learned (and often relearned) the hard way. Every emotional bump and bruise and scar is definitely earned. Here are some of my hard earned lessons in polyamory thus far:
Ask for what you want. I’ll repeat it a little slower. Ask. For. What. You. Want. I can't expect anyone to read my mind and just give it to me. As my aunt would say, a closed mouth don't get fed.
This is one of those lessons I’ve had to repeat many times before it stuck. (And truth be told, I‘m sometimes given a refresher course lol.) Because of the many ways in which this lesson manifests itself, it has had to be learned in it‘s numerous incarnations. For example, it can be difficult to ask for what I want if I feel it’s a silly request. I find that this reason often applies if I have a 'trivial' emotional want, ie: I know my partner loves me. He tells me that he loves me often. Though sometimes I ask to hear it. Small exercises like this have helped me in the grand scheme of things. It makes asking for what I want easier, no matter how ‘silly’ it may seem. (That’s not to say that I feel entitled and always get what I want. My boyfriend is a bit of smart ass and sometimes I’m met with answers like, “I loved you all day yesterday. I need a break today,” or, “Right now, I love college football. Try again later.”)
(For more reasons as to why we often don’t ask our partner(s) for what we want, read Ask For What You Want, a very insightful post by polyfulcrum.)
Don’t keep secrets between partners. This was an ugly one for me to learn and I still have all of the knocks to prove it.
Being romantically involved with two people who are also romantically involved with each other can be tricky. It gets trickier when one asks you to keep a transgression of theirs from the other. DON’T DO IT! Not only did I feel the guilt of keeping things from Partner B when it wasn’t even my secret to keep, I felt betrayed by Partner A for putting me in that position. The negative feelings intensified the longer it went on and the fall out of keeping the secret was much worse (for me the formerly innocent party, made accomplice) than just coming out with it.
I didn't think I would have to ask a partner not to put me in a position that would compromise my relationship with the other partner. Now, I set this boundary upfront to avoid any more unpleasant surprises like this.
Don’t be the mediator in your partners' relationship(s). It became emotionally draining for me to play that role in my partners' relationship. Going forward when put in this situation, at most I will provide a sympathetic ear without giving advice or taking sides. If the negativity of my partners becomes too much for me to even provide that, I say something like, “I’m sorry you two are having issues. Being put in the middle of your conflict makes me uncomfortable. You should talk to him/her about this.”
Credits towards my very own poly degree :p
Non-monogamous relationships are arguably one of the most difficult relationship structures to maintain and many lessons are learned (and often relearned) the hard way. Every emotional bump and bruise and scar is definitely earned. Here are some of my hard earned lessons in polyamory thus far:
Ask for what you want. I’ll repeat it a little slower. Ask. For. What. You. Want. I can't expect anyone to read my mind and just give it to me. As my aunt would say, a closed mouth don't get fed.
This is one of those lessons I’ve had to repeat many times before it stuck. (And truth be told, I‘m sometimes given a refresher course lol.) Because of the many ways in which this lesson manifests itself, it has had to be learned in it‘s numerous incarnations. For example, it can be difficult to ask for what I want if I feel it’s a silly request. I find that this reason often applies if I have a 'trivial' emotional want, ie: I know my partner loves me. He tells me that he loves me often. Though sometimes I ask to hear it. Small exercises like this have helped me in the grand scheme of things. It makes asking for what I want easier, no matter how ‘silly’ it may seem. (That’s not to say that I feel entitled and always get what I want. My boyfriend is a bit of smart ass and sometimes I’m met with answers like, “I loved you all day yesterday. I need a break today,” or, “Right now, I love college football. Try again later.”)
(For more reasons as to why we often don’t ask our partner(s) for what we want, read Ask For What You Want, a very insightful post by polyfulcrum.)
Don’t keep secrets between partners. This was an ugly one for me to learn and I still have all of the knocks to prove it.
Being romantically involved with two people who are also romantically involved with each other can be tricky. It gets trickier when one asks you to keep a transgression of theirs from the other. DON’T DO IT! Not only did I feel the guilt of keeping things from Partner B when it wasn’t even my secret to keep, I felt betrayed by Partner A for putting me in that position. The negative feelings intensified the longer it went on and the fall out of keeping the secret was much worse (for me the formerly innocent party, made accomplice) than just coming out with it.
I didn't think I would have to ask a partner not to put me in a position that would compromise my relationship with the other partner. Now, I set this boundary upfront to avoid any more unpleasant surprises like this.
Don’t be the mediator in your partners' relationship(s). It became emotionally draining for me to play that role in my partners' relationship. Going forward when put in this situation, at most I will provide a sympathetic ear without giving advice or taking sides. If the negativity of my partners becomes too much for me to even provide that, I say something like, “I’m sorry you two are having issues. Being put in the middle of your conflict makes me uncomfortable. You should talk to him/her about this.”
Credits towards my very own poly degree :p
